It is currently Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:06 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: How to print with ABS?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:26 pm 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:28 pm
Posts: 30
Hello all,

How do you guys print with ABS? I cant simply get it working properly because the extruded ABS is not adhering.

I am using a glassplate and heating the ABS to 245C° with a 60C° hot heatbed but nothing helps.

Everything worked perfectly with PLA at 200C° and a 50C° hot heatbed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:02 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:18 pm
Posts: 208
To make it adhere, cover your glass plate with kapton tape, then coat the kapton with acetone in which you dissolved some ABS for a few hours:
http://www.instructables.com/id/100-War ... -in-a-Jar/

The acetone will evaporate and leave a very thin layer of ABS on which your print will adhere very well (potentially too well, use only a thin spread! or you will be replacing your kapton on every print).

But Im afraid that may only be the start of your problems,.. warping, delamination,.. I hope you have more luck than I did.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:18 pm 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:28 pm
Posts: 30
is it also possible just with UHU glue on the glassplate?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:34 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:17 pm
Posts: 886
Location: SH, Germany
Hi opti2000,

try it and let us know how it went!

Most people here - please correct me if I'm wrong - have printed ABS with upgraded heating capability, in order to reach higher temperatures on the heatbed and improve ABS 'stickability'. Kapton tape or ABS slurry on glass, as P4man already wrote, are commonly used to further promote adhesion, but sufficiently high temperature is so far the key point for reliable ABS printing. On the other hand, there have been no reports of ABS working well on clean glass, so this seems to be a bad choice (in contrast to PLA, which works quite well on glass).

The main problem with ABS is that it shrinks when it cools down. At a certain critical height (1 mm for some objects, 5 mm or more for others), the tensile force that the new layers put on the print when cooling down becomes greater than the adhesion to the heatbed. Mostly this happens at corners and at the (free) end of long, narrow sections, since there the adhesion (which depends on the area) is small. The brim-setting will affect exactly that point: enlarge the area around all the edges to increase adhesion. For some objects, adding a larger brim will help, while others will detach no matter what. By the way, the ABS slurry also works as a kind of brim, providing a very large bottom surface for the print. Additionally, keep the fan at a very low setting or even off when printing ABS. Apart from better layer adhesion, the heatbed will keep a higher temperature without the fan. Also don't put the printer next to a window or any other source of (cold) airflow or into a cold room for this. Note that the living room may also be a bad choice: hot ABS has a distincive "burnt plastic" smell, much more than PLA.

Cheers,
kuraasu


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:32 pm 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:28 pm
Posts: 30
Okay guys good news.

I am printing right now on a glassplate coated with a UHU glue stick.
First layer is sticking perfectly

The printing is still ongoing but it looks good.

Here are my settings/instructions:

Grease the place where your model will be printed on the glassplate generously with a UHU glue stick.

I set the extruder heat for the first layer to 220C° and all the other layers with 215C°
The heatbed is heated to 65C° for the first layer and 60C° for the rest.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:47 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:17 pm
Posts: 886
Location: SH, Germany
Nice. What kind of object is it (shape, size)?

I'd recommend increasing the temperature, to 230 °C, 240 °C, or even 245 °C. At 215 °C most ABS is already quite viscous, so the extruder will have a hard time pushing enough filament through the hotend.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:51 pm 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:28 pm
Posts: 30
I am testing it with a simple rectangle. 6cm x 4cm x 2cm

And yes you are right 215-220C° was a little bit too low for the printing. The extruder is pretty much fighting to print it properly. :P

I will restart the print process with a higher temperature.

EDIT: Confirmed! 240C° extruder temperature and 65C° heatbed with UHU glue stick coating is optimal for ABS printing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:54 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:17 pm
Posts: 886
Location: SH, Germany
If you want to test the method a bit more extensive, design some part in the shape of the letter 'T', 'C', or similar, so that the shape is less compact. If the ends of the narrow regions still stick at, say, 10 mm print height, it should be stable also for larger heights.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:55 pm 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:43 pm
Posts: 13
Opti2000,
Is the print with ABS now ok with de UHU glue?
I have the same probleme, after the third layer the corners coming loose.
I tryed the abs disolved in aceton on the glass plate but no succes, it won't stick on the glass plate.

Grtz Kris


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:15 pm 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:28 pm
Posts: 30
@dxn812

Yes it is working great with UHU glue. I am using this one:

Image

Just grease the area on your glassplate with the UHU glue and print. It will stick really nice on the
glassplate. Sometimes it is hard to remove the printed object afterwards but you can simply use some
flat tool to scrape it off carefully.

My settings with ABS.

First layer: 0.30mm
next layers: depends on the object. (i am using 0.15mm or 0.10mm if i want it detailled)

Extruder temp.: 240-245C°
Heatbed: 60-65C°


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:20 am 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:07 am
Posts: 2
For a print without corners of your abs model curling up:
Print bed heat to 90°C.
Extruder on 230°C (hotter gives air bubbles in the material/ABS).

Before heating the bed : glue some thin cotton with UHU liquid transparent glue.
Make sure, the corners and rims of the cotton is nice fixed and does not curl up.
Adjust the nozzle head exactly, so that it levels the upperlevel of the cotton.

If the cotton is stuck well to the flat GLASS bed, then the nozzle will leave it on the bed.
Your footprint will be in the cotton en even the corners won't curl up.

After printing the model and glue will come off in warm water.
The cotton is even reusable.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:13 pm 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:28 pm
Posts: 30
I have printed now some few objects with ABS and it works like a charm. But i got still some problems with the print quality.
Take a look at these pictures:

Image
I printed a wrench and at first it looks allright but if you look closer there are some little holes
on the upper part and the sides also look spaced. (even though i printed with 0,10mm height)

Image
Especially this spacing of the layers is really annoying. How can i prevent this? Is it possible to
print flat sides without the grooves you see in this picture?

Image
Also why are these holes appearing? I mean it prints the other half of the object with a nice flat surface and
suddenly these holes appear.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:27 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:19 am
Posts: 2267
Location: Namur, Belgium
First, it looks like you have a huge Z wobble.

To avoid the holes you'll have to play with the amount of extruded material.
ABS is quite tricky when it comes to find the right adjustment. A lot more than PLA actually.
Too much and you'll have blobs scraped by the nozzle and bulging corners. Not enough and you'll get holes and slits between layers.

Problem is that ABS doesn't spread easily like PLA. For the same reason you also must have a perfectly flat and horizontal heatbed and the height between bed and nozzle must be set equal everywhere as well.
And no cooling of course.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:46 pm 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:28 pm
Posts: 30
Yes i allready noticed that my Z-axis is really hard wobbling. The motor down the Z-axis is noticeably going back and forward.

How can i fix this? I mean the Z-rod itself is crooked.

The question is:
Why do i even get a crooked Z-rod anyway out of the box?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:35 pm 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:45 pm
Posts: 41
opti2000 wrote:
Yes i allready noticed that my Z-axis is really hard wobbling. The motor down the Z-axis is noticeably going back and forward.

How can i fix this? I mean the Z-rod itself is crooked.

The question is:
Why do i even get a crooked Z-rod anyway out of the box?

Give it a quick try with a removed top nut, just leave it swinging around for a test, that is how I do it but it is hardly bent. The Z-rod will stand on the motor and that is no problem. Big chance that it will improve a lot.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group